(I just barely started listening.) 36 That the rights of the priesthood are inseparably connected with the powers of heaven, and that the powers of heaven cannot be controlled nor handled only upon the principles of righteousness. Celestial glory? I Corinthians 11:3 (Paul), “But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.” If anyone was to get it, it should have been Mormons. But most already know, at least subconsciously, that it isn’t true. 41 No power or influence can or ought to be maintained by virtue of the priesthood, only by persuasion, by long-suffering, by gentleness and meekness, and by love unfeigned; 42 By kindness, and pure knowledge, which shall greatly enlarge the soul without hypocrisy, and without guile. I loved listening to this and have found great truth in many of the discussions in the podcast and in the comments. Or, at the very least, try to see and approach beyond our own biases. However, with the way you set and built things up I was expecting to hear some pretty awful stuff; but to my own surprise, after you read aloud his initial and subsequent statements, I found them to be very much, shall we say, expected? Everyone should understand this. While most men in modern society today realize that they need to earn the respect of women, in the Mormon church, all males over age twelve are given some degree of Priesthood authority, along with the respect attached to it, simply as a right of passage, while Mormon girls or women have no such entitlement. 4, 1122: The Purves Family: How a Davis, CA Bishop and his Family Navigate(d) a Mormon Faith Crisis Pt. (Maturing) That is a compliment and I hope you will take it as one! Without it, nothing matters. And you are right, I was hurt by the church. Unfortunately, my current familial and professional obligations make me uncomfortable disclosing my identity and taking a public stand against a Church that justifies, encourages, and protects leaders like you. I’m actually shocked that everyone one of them ISN’T like this, or worse. He needs to change his name to bishop apathy. 3, 1121: The Purves Family: How a Davis, CA Bishop and his Family Navigate(d) a Mormon Faith Crisis Pt. Jared and Gwen were raised as devout Mormons, married in the Jordan River temple, had 6 children, and established a successful dental practice in Farmington, NM. I think he should appear before a disciplinary council and be lectured on how he should’ve handled the situation differently. Prayers are with you and your family. The only reason you believe there is a god is because a man told you. …Sorry, maybe that was too harsh, but that was initial reaction late last night after watching this. I hope she finds whatever answers she is looking for. Ever since Adam listened to Eve and fell from God’s presence, men haven’t been able to hear to a word women say. Bishop L. to your first comment from last night. I Cor 11:9 (Paul), “Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man.” Perhaps this accounts for the attitude of Bishop L. and other leaders like him. I have always said that if a woman can-do as well or better than men and if that is what they choose. You ask for equality but I am not sure that is what you really want or are asking for. What I “get” from the STORY of Adam and Eve and the Fall: Ever since God ran out of ribs and had to take one from Adam, men have had a strange suspicion that women owe them something. But how does a mother or women exercising or using the priesthood power take anything away from a man? Let’s concentrate on his anger, his desperate need to shame, and his willingness, at the expense of the member, to ‘stay in the [sinking] boat’. And that is not to say at all that one is beneath the other. Lastly, I didn’t appreciate how you read the bishops comments aloud with an overly aggressive tone making it out to sound worse that it would have if you would have just read it more neutral. Riverton, UT 84065, Re: In Defense of Tonya Guest and Thousands of God’s Children Just Like Her. I think most of his listeners are smart enough to recognize bullying when they hear or see it.) In the worst case, the person then tries to take as many with them as possible. As women have competed for and earned positions in traditionally male domains (the university, the workplace, the halls of congress, the board room, the military, the church hierarchy, and professional, competitive sports), men have been forced to acknowledge and respect their abilities outside of the kitchen and the bedroom. Is that equal? 1, 1130: Tonya Guest - When a Mormon Bishop Shames You on Social Media, 1129: Amber Scorah - Leaving the Witness: Exiting Religion and Finding a Life, 1128: Crystal Escobar - The Wannabe Balanced Mom Pt. Not less but different. Fortunately, my Church leaders have never been foolish or insensitive enough to call me out, by name and over the “pulpit,” but I know they have treated me the same way behind closed doors. He was God in the flesh. I’m not asking for men to give women the priesthood, I don’t think they need permission from a man to exercise the power they innately have. You broke your ecclesiastical duty of confidentiality by disclosing the content of extremely personal and painful details that were divulged to you within the confines of that sacred trust. No! My best wishes for Tonya. A predominant idea since ancient times has been that a man is entitled to respect just because he is a man. He clearly has no respect for women or for the privacy that his calling demands. Write the letter again when you develop the courage to stand for something. This is exactly what the 15 (and hundreds of dead ones) have told bishops to be. Do you believe in Jesus Christ? There are women who think they should be equal in everyway but physideally and spiritually and mentally. Is that fair? Thank you! Please seek truth and real answers. 3, 1132: Jared, Gwen, & Madison Lusk: A Former Mormon Bishop and His Family from New Mexico Face Excommunication for Apostasy Pt. When, actually, the day this girl “friended” her bishop on Facebook, was the day she gave him permission to be a part of, and comment on the posts that she makes. Social media has now given us each our own personal pulpit. It outlines the divine roles and responsibilities through which both a woman and a man can receive everything. But mostly because it seems your entire faith journey had been uncomfortable and unfulfilling…from wedding to baby blessings to not being given clarity to your very real questions. The challenge is the positive response seems to confirm our rationalization, and it feeds our pride. 2, 1131: Jared, Gwen, & Madison Lusk: A Former Mormon Bishop and His Family from New Mexico Face Excommunication for Apostasy Pt. One that will consume your soul. It is like being prodded with a sharp stick. In any case, it’s completely inexcusable for the stake president to not meet with her. That and an immensely smug sense of superiority. I will touch on one more thing you have raised which may be even more important. Yet a woman can enter without it and receives every blessing offered a man. But with how much offense you’re taking to his actions and statements as a bishop, one would think you, John, are still a TBM yourself; and we all know that’s not the case. Where a flicker of disagreement was created by a Facebook post about woman’s role in the Church, you fanned the flame into an inferno of enmity that not only engulfed many members of your congregation but the friends and family of the poor sister who you so publicly berated. Most women know that sex is their main, but not only, value to men. Thank you for sharing that with all my friends, family, and neighbors. You seek that which is contrary to truth and you will never be satisfied. Those in the “faithful” stage must be faithful to outside authority. Expressing a public statement on social media—specifically regarding issues of women and the church—and then. Talk-show hosts do the same. We have held special meetings to address the very topics and asked individuals to research and provide the information with real data. The Church is probably thinking about a disciplinary court on her right now. I could agree that maybe as a bishop he should have been more professional and taken a different approach, but if this would have been any other TBM not in a leadership role, it would be nothing more than a person making some rebuttals on Facebook she didn’t agree with. I was mortified by them. Thank you so much for sharing your story…wow, that bishop is unreal. Tonya seemed reticent to share any thoughts or feelings beyond what she shared on Facebook. Mormon Stories #1130: Tonya Guest - When a Mormon Bishop Shames You on Social Media - Duration: 1:45:37. I don’t think she should’ve done anything differently. Why would you expect him to say otherwise? I did everything I was supposed to do. Just like walking alone in a bad part of town, I do agree with Aaron and Eric that she should have expected it. So please don’t tell me that I have completely dismissed those. It would appear that you want men and woman to be the same, when I believe the Lord wants us to celebrate and honor the differences, not to oppress but to bless and fulfill. Based on Tonya’s Facebook and podcast interview responses, I think she handled herself really well. Thanks, Tonya, for having the courage to be on this podcast. Every statement in his facebook posts were completely inappropriate and especially sharing items from private conversations even if he believes he’s a “watchman on the tower.” He violated every rule under the sun when it comes to privacy, decency, kindness, love, respect, etc. From his very first post, the bishop starts with an insult to Tonya by telling her what she thinks. You seem like an incredible young woman, I usually never comment on things but couldn’t help myself after listening to this. My prayers are with you and you are 100% correct that there are major problems with the church, historically and now and I pray God will continue bringing these things to light through brave souls like you, my wife, John Dehlin and so many more. Is it so wrong to have another perspective within the church? These men you speak of are prophets of God. Very unprofessional and bias. I think the things Aaron mentioned sound a little extreme and crazy. Regarding the Bishop’s spelling/misuse of homonyms and pronouns: there is a disorder, which he has clearly demonstrated in his lengthy responses. Yet, they find some of the comments somewhat offensive or at least belittling to woman and men who believe differently. We will also be discussing Tonya’s attempts to discuss the issue with her stake president, and we will read stories/experiences from others with similar experiences. Tonya you do not believe that these men are apostles and prophets of God. Keep lobbing those stones from the front yard of the property containing your glass house. The only way to know that is to read and pray about it. When we seek answers or truth, one of two things happen. I don’t know any women who believe that the essence of manhood is the highest good, even if those women can see that the authors of the scriptures thought so, and those women are religious, and they picture God as a man.
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